The church is doing fine. And if it gets really bad the staunch hybels factions may end up being ousted. Posting from East China where these kind of things often, ahem, usually get brushed under the carpet. Davids own relationship with God was apparently restored, David continued to worship the God of Israel-to his death as far as I know. Hint hint. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. What I am remembering, and what troubled me then, is how these well-meaning people fell under the Willow Creek spell, and how their little, creaky, boring churches could not compete with the new mega entertainment center. Will the clay say to the potter, What are you doing? Or the thing you are making say, He has no hands ? Isaiah 45:9. The worst that often has happened is some vague mumbled half-apology or copping to a general misunderstanding. Even then, she was ashamed about what happened to her, as if it was her fault. This is ALL so disappointing and disheartening. Think about it. If you arent getting that from family, church and friends might conceivably help meet that need. I have been reading sex abuse stories for 9 years. Its amazing how many believers will interpret the metaphor of fruit differently, for example. In this day and age, no one wants to get their name caught in the tangled web. (1 Cor. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. No idea the the Bible says, Do the work of an evangelist! Hooray for David. Or it could be that he has no civil right so to speak to have his hands on her in the first place and therefore the responsibility to monitor his own behavior is his and not hers. @ Thersites: Like the real estate/mortgage broker years ago who the day before the search warrant came down, backed up an industrial shredder van to their office for an all-day shred-everything party. Be the one who is loving and kind in the midst of sorrow, showing us that you trust Jesus to bring something beautiful out of this pain. All so sad! He told me to sit down and put my feet up. Instead, we are the be faithful to our calling. Theres theory, and then practise. Character is revealed, not when things are going our way but when things are painful. It does not promise moonlight, roses and a string quartet. WITCHES! The focus was wrong and a bit too emphatic for me. Though Lynne had intended to become a social worker, she did not hesitate to commit her life to church ministry, convinced that God has given the local church a clear mandate to address the needs of "the whole person in the whole world." I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. It occurred shortly after she had divorced her first husband. If it doesnt recur, people often try to dismiss it as an aberration. I developed this over the last 10 years in writing curriculum on addressing systemic abuse. Give me the bellicose jerks any time. It came out that he had a child with one lady out of wedlock. As Im reading the comments, its becoming evident that theres something horribly wrong with Willow Creek church. I do believe that he may have gone through a time of repentance and contrition, as much as he may understand that he needs to, and has come to the other side of it and that is the reason that he may not seem as repentant as they expect. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. And, yes, some people dont come forward with their experiences for dozens of years. It is in the section entitled, An inquiry begins, about halfway down the page. What you are saying is that public perception of sin causes people to walk away from the faith? I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. There will be a full court press to save Hybels legacy. Married: Spouse: Lynne Hybels (m. 1974) Son/Daughter: Yes (Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels) Earning: $95,000 : Net Worth: However, just noticed a mega the founding family kids were using as their cash cow, followed by sexual indiscretions. I am thankful for the hard work Bill Hybels and his family have done. Oh, absolutely. If you arent a hugger, you arent a hugger. Global Leadership huh Bill ? People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Put it in context and think about such a convo. A very misunderstood view of redemption; repentance and forgiveness is taught out there especially in seeker Megas. Kudos to these two publishers. Position? Is that honest? That is a mistake. Rats gnawing cables in two; Why did I brush aside all of these things as if they did not matter?. This sounds like the guys in the NHL who put black marks on their helmets when they get hit with puck. Last month, the Chicago Tribune published claims that women made against Hybels spanning decades. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. The Gospels that I read portray a Jesus that constainly questioned the established and told parables about what is moral that makes you walk away and think. Wow. These things are often expected immediately in the Christian world. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. This is part of the problem that the #metoo movement does not address. Hybels chief goal seems to have been to get his sexual needs met without negotiation. I recognized something was wrong with that, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection. Not surprising that you are getting off-colored comments from some WC members. How can leadership send an OPINION to the entire congregation? Does Bill Hybel teach future pastors how to get their IT departments to have special deals? has been proclaimed against the Devil and his Witches. Our job is to call. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. OK. Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. If at the end of this tragedy, Willow Creek gets that they will flow like a river rather than a creek. What I count is as follows: The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. Nothing brings the True Believer attack dogs out of the woodwork like even the hint of Blasphemy against their REAL god. Other WCC members are posting this letter on fb. Not one. Now the manipulation continues as the abused who have raised their voices are abused yet again. My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. Ever thought of switching to WordPress? Ever. Shameful! how many people worship Hybels instead of God. I have to think, absolutely have to think, that a courageous leader sure wouldve done things differently in the last month, whether Hybels is totally clean and all of these women leaders in the church and old friends of Bill are part of a vast conspiracy to destroy Bill Hybels, the righteous man, or if Hybels is dirty and all along was an abusive sociopath and terminal liar. They collected funds for widows and orphans, and then distributed those funds as promised. Shauna Niequist has apologised for failing to speak up after her father, Bill Hybels, was accused of sexual misconduct. How is that not normal? It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. Barb, I must say, you have this amazing gift of being able to cut through a persons (premeditated) bullpoo. Wild!!! (A bit dogmatic, huh? But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. A brave woman called each person out, which led to subsequent allegations, Differences Not the courtroom. Take responsibility for your actions and the role you played! That ambien thing sounds like plausible deniability, doesnt it? And theres nothing fundamentally wrong with that in the proper context. Once again, you are doing Satans work not Gods. No. This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. There are evil people who look like good people. Im not saying any of that is right. plus Ive read very wise authors like: Don Hennessy an relationship counselor in Ireland who has worked for decades in the field of domestic abuse. That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! When you read it, I think you might as well. This is RUSSIAN Bureaucratic tradition, centered on Plausible Deniability: Dont know, but I wonder. I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. In my 9 years of writing a blog which deals with abuse issues, I have been deeply upset by the responses of Christians when their celebrity church or pastor have been shown to have clay feet. Hybels has been open regarding his professional career but does not share any information about his personal life. I sat on a committee for two years which did nothing but brainstorm ways to increase retention rates and decrease progression time through our programsour biggest nightmare was the student who didnt get connected to some group, we knew they were likely to get lonely, drop out, go back to their hometown and become a settled-in townie. The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. Who are the people our Creator said were His people?, Are you one of those Serpent Seed believers? I never saw a cross hanging in Willow nor heard a pastor speak out against gay marriage, women pastors or the slaughter of the Palestinians, etc . I was extremely uncomfortable with Hybels repeatedly reminding the church he was the one leading the charge to empower women. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. Are you saying that letter posted was well written? Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. It would be very nice if he went to each one of them with other unbiased witnesses, and came to understand how his behavior, even if it was misconstrued, had affected them and apologized it would be nice, but I know that sometime you have to conduct your own healing process, with the help of God of course, and others regardless of the abusers behavior. I know of one drawing up plans for an old fashioned Chapel complete with a steeple to put on their campus for those who prefer smaller churches. Lets do church. He has two children with his wife, Lynn whom he married in 1974. @ truthseeker00: People have been had. We only hear about the ones dumb enough to slip up and get caught! After you were told by Bill that you dressed like a college professor and needed to dress appropriately for your position, I was the one asked to get you new clothing. Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. Or, they quickly retract. That is my point. Dont confuse the two. However, just noticed a mega the founding family kids were using as their cash cow, followed by sexual indiscretions. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). We are all sinners and we all fail. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? This video was shot in and aroundKirkenesand Pas National Park bordering Russia, at 70 degree north and 30 degrees east. Forgiveness after repentance is one thing (and a rare thing if someone never actually admits to anything beyond a mistakes in judgment were made public spin). Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. (none of them did it in a bothersome way, I just wasnt used to it). That is a typical church response. Emily McFarlan Miller. In 2014, Leanne Mellado let me know that a good friend of hers had shared a disturbing story. Ive learned how to see the tactics of abusers because Ive been listening to the victims of domestic abuse for years, am a survivor of CSA and DV and spiritual abuse myself plus Ive read many of the statements which perps make when their sins are called out and exposed. They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. And he could also use the Ambien thing to slander Vonda if she publicly complained about the way he had treated her that night. some Rabbi from Nazareth. So your mind overrides your gut. The principles are sound, thoughwell enough to be applied to anyone's marriage, especially those looking to place God in the middle. Is it not I, the LORD? The women will be able to see the other side of things. 1 kiss I mean, one post here put Hybels name next to Weinstiens. I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. FWIW, Id love the notification option tooI have the opposite problem as Barb. Is it the lack of family having your back? Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. If we do that, whether it is an elderly shut in praying for her friends and family in solitude or a person such as Peter standing in front of thousands, so long as we do whatever the Lord asks, that is a great work. Dee, @ Bridget: I mean, it makes for good gossip too. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. Lets go a little deeper. HE GOT AWAY WITH IT, SO CAN I! Working our works out of view, Its YOUR money they use. You bet it will get nasty.. It frustrates me that victims have to endure more pain when they come forward. But it is the structure, really. During that meeting, an Elder told a WCA Board member that Willow Creek had no document retention policy. This was the first time either Board had heard about this arrangement, but both of these women told us separately that Bill had told them about this special arrangement years prior. So, does that mean the alleged improprieties, at least for them, are not #Metoo worthy offenses? Thank goodness at least that at church when we pass the peace we literally clasp a hand briefly and say peace (literally that) and this is the entire procedure. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? Sometimes you have to look into the darkness in order to see that God is still present and at work. Both are the same in outcome). Huge. I actually thought it was funny. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. The church isnt being destroyed. I did, and he asked me to come up for a leadership talk, and told me to come alone. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. Yep. What would you have suggested she tell her husband? Thanks, Barbara, for your outstanding work. That is more unusual these days. Jesus takes care of the harvest. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Wow. Ive experienced it alsomultiple times. Read the Bible. He wanted to find out if she was still angry with him and what she would do about it if she was. Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. And with Invocation of GAWD subbing for the Ludes and Roofies. Of course not. But only a few. . Every believer has a unique calling. The trusting person is the dupe who was groomed to respond accordingly. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. This is only the tip of the iceberg. You were there (especially for children) Status? It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. Thank you for that comment, Lydia. there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. Look for similarities with the other victims testimonies. At one mega, the pastors alleged other woman was the missions director. Ask yourself If we are to judge on actions that are listed as sin or are considered crimes, then what does this really mean. Lydia, not sure if that is sarcasm or? May God raise up more people like Josiah who tore down the high places and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of God until Jesus becomes the only thing worshipped in the church. I too believed that what I experienced was an aberration and couldnt be attributed to a person of such spiritual stature. Since Hybels resigned, a few of the accusers have stated that they did not want it to come to that. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. As for BIll HybelsI have not judged his salvation. Put a frog in a pot,with boiling water and the frog knows to jump out, but if the water is a slow boil, the frog with stay and finally be boiled. Thats what she thinks is comparable? normal life stuff. But it is also more than ethics here. 1 Peter 4:8 Timing is interesting. These people are the living proof. : Hybels considers himself first among equals in the fraternity of evangelical pastors. And conveniently you are dismissing the affair. Why it was Bill Hybels! Because TWW doesnt have a tick the box to be notified of future comments, and because my comments seem to go live straight away, I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. No one walks away unascathed. Look up who are semitic people. I think people also need to read-jodiewalle.com/openletterto johnortbergwho was also accused of much the same thing-be careful of the stones you throw-and also be careful of how you judge anything. I was joking about the dog. Read Acts 4 and 5. At what point did Nancy inform her husband? I cant help but see your point here. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. As has been pointed out above, many ways to digest the Bible; however a almost universal understanding is to be Christlike. Right. We are talking about someone very well paid to teach Jesus and model that teaching. However, I am not going to let every Tom, Dick and Joe Salitas to copy and paste the letter into this comment section. I happened to meet the other womans husband, and I suppose the megapastor considered him a type C or D leader and didnt often invite him along. They have changed so many lives for the good. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. Shameful! . over my many years associated with fundamenatlist through to mainline protestant groups I have experienced things situations, or told things that seemed just downright wrong. Me too. @ jackie: Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. Love That Lasts book. Which God/god Bill ? Redemption. My professional organization will not do that In fact, we are specifically instructed how to do email when legally sensitive information is invloved. The existence of an impartial documented history of 2 years worth of 1150 emails between Bill and the other woman is stark corroboration. Or your friends husband. But she was trying to equate her comraderly relationship with Ortberg the same as women who have come forward concerning hybels Behavior. @ ishy: Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. Look at it this way, if they had waited just 6-months longer Brother Hybels would have been given an honorable exit from the ministry as he faded into retirement without facing these allegations. Dr George Simon Jr a clinical psychologist and writes about character disorder, manipulative personalities and malignant narcissism. He pulled me aside and asked me if anything had happened. They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth. The invitation to the first Family Meeting stated in the first paragraph that this group wanted to damage the church and the senior pastor! Terrible, terrible thing. I hope so. Who appointed you besides yourself ? If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. How many times do you think it needs to be posted? Actually, hugging creates a release of oxytocin (also known as the cuddle hormone) in the human body, which can artificially create a sense of trust and closeness. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. On our travels last summer one of the high points for my husband was to attend Willow Creek Church. Alcohol made me do it (Perry Nobel) Oh yeah. Lynne Hybels was born on 21st November 1951. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. I chose to focus on the positive, job well done, not the negative. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. After all that Nancy Ortberg said, I would hate for her husband to have behaved like that, even if it isnt as bad as what Bill Hybels has done. Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? Which is why the Internet is SATANIC WITCHCRAAAAAFT and their on-lookers are the WITCHES! No one knows. No one, from the janitor to the CEO, can be deemed off limits to the moral and ethical demands of respect, decency and appropriate behavior. May God raise up more people like Josiah who tore down the high places and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of God until Jesus becomes the only thing worshipped in the church. Everyone liked this guy and a group of women didnt want him to go to prison because he was so nice. Put it in context and think about such a convo. There was also some sort of one world conspiracy deal. If Hybels had confessed an Ambien addiction with unlikely but serious side effects at the WC family meeting which had caused his occasional bad behavior around women staffers, he might have received a longer standing ovation. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. So what does that say about what he thinks of me that he thinks he can help himself to my woman? of Poor Poor Innocent Victim of Wicked Stepmother, then hit the detonator (after those several years of setting the charges) at his own wedding, when he invited her (and the rest of the family). Reminds me of Bill Gothard and how he gromms and re-grooms his victims too. Excuse me? I know. People said the same sort of things about us, people sneered at us, shunned us, surely said Whats wrong with this picture just like you did. . Medical records are handled in this fashion. Very often, as you point out, in times of crisis, people respond in ways that reveal. Ill assume you mean well and are somewhere back in that stage where youre still denying. The founding couple died, and the board got rid of those naughty kids and grandkids. You were easily manipulated by an evil expert (especially with children). You can trust Jesus and He is your perfect role model. On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Many years back Hybels started up the World Leadership Conferences which in reality means World Domination Conferences. That was Pauls charge to Timothy. Because saving his legacy saves Willow Creek. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote: Instead of turning the other cheek or choosing kindness in the midst of your disappointment, I see anger and a willingness to hurt other people. One comment not allowed. One person even called him *Joseph. Hybels is the founding and former senior pastor of the Willow Creek Community Church located in South Barrington, Illinois. In a calm. But then . I mean, most say they want the truth. If nothing else, it is incredibly prideful of a person. Yes, there is a hug/cuddle culture that has science backing it. Where I work we are required to use the company secure email system if sending high or moderate risk information (e.g., social security numbers, credit card numbers, student records, health information). Do it on your personal, not work, email. Its the whole structure of the godly pastor on stage week after week. I dont have to be a fan of Nancy Ortberg to take her testimony seriously. Really? I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. He has denied. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. How long are you going to allow Satan to control your actions? And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. Jesus is our model of leadership. God is always present, even in the hard and dark times. Ruth Haley Barton, formerly of Willow Creek and trained at the very contemplative Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation in Washington D.C., wrote Invitation to Solitude and Silence, and teaches contemplative prayer through her Transforming Center. Some years ago on a dictionary of internet slang, Christian Side Hug was a term for non-genital sex intended to preserve technical virginity. I doubt you get the same affect from creepy weirdo hugs. He lied when he told the Monday night Family Meeting that the unhappy marriage comment in the Tribune was just the result of a check-in.. I bet she had help. So call the best pastor you can, but the best pastor is the most Christ-like, not the most TV-ready. An honest person has nothing to hide and everything to gain and will save things because he is safe in the knowledge that evidence will only prove his innocence. 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